Jeremy Neitzke

This is the transcript for an interview conducted on October 4th, 2022 with Michael Gordon about his Magic the Gathering Podcast Amateurs Arcanum.

Jeremy: Hi Mike. First, thank you for taking the time to meet with me. I’ve been a fan of your Podcast for sometime so having the opportunity to ask you a few questions is very exciting. For the readers who are not familiar with Amateurs Arcanum  can you give us a quick rundown of who you are and what your Podcast is all about?

Mike: Yeah of course, thanks for having me. My name is Mike Gordon, and I am a Magic the Grhering content creator. I’ve been playing for about 10 years now, and making content for the last couple of years. I like ti help people get better at Magic, while also exploring the incredibly deep world and amazing art of the game.

Jeremy: That is a perfect lead into my next question, what has been your favorite part of being apart of Magic content creation in general?

Mike: For me, it’s about really connecting with people all over and helping them find a passion for the game, wether competitively or creativity. It’s like playing chess, but there are 10,000 hand crafted, unique pieces.

Jeremy: I know the worlds and the stories that are used as a backdrop for the different sets are huge draws for individuals coming into the game, I’m curious to know who or what brought you into the game.

Mike: So while I focus on a lot of that in my content, my introduction to the game was through and old coworker of mine. He has a pretty serious medical condition, and there was a period of time when he was home bound for like, 3 months. And he asked me if I wanted to come hang out, and I said sure, and when he got there he was sorting all of these cards; like, thousands of them. I was stunned, and he was very cool about it and explained the whole process to me. I was hooked right there, and now here we are!

Jeremy: Wow, that’s amazing that someone was willing to take you in and teach you the game at such a young age. Does that inform how you approach making your show?

Mike: It does for sure. The game has so much complexity, that ti be able to judge the games at tournaments, you have to go through like a year of study on the material, and then take a written AND a practical skills exam. That’s a lot! But my friend was able to break it all down for me step by step, and by explaining to me about the worlds and the artists involved, it really got me invested and prevented me from getting shell shocked by all of the rules and interaction. I hope I’m able to do just that with anyone finding our program.

Jeremy: One of the main criticisms you see with the game is that the barrier for entry is somewhat tied to being able to buy the best cards that are currently in rotation. Do you feel that there is some truth to that?

Mike: That is always such a sticking point: do you want the best possible cards, or do you want to play worse cards and save money? Make no mistake, Magic is an expensive hobby for anyone, not just guys like me who make a living off of it. I like to show people though that there are more ways to play Magic other than playing the best possible cards and worrying about win percentages. Magic is unique to the player. Do you want to play a deck with a bunch of different cards from the same artist? Do it! Do you and your friends want to see what kind of crazy decks you can make from cards that cost less than a penny? That’s not an exaggeration by the way, some cards aren’t even worth a full penny. Does that make the game less fun? Not in my opinion. There is so much more to Magic than you see at first glance.

Jeremy: That’s an interesting concept, would you do the “Budget Decks” as a segment on your podcast or would you try to branch out to a different platform like YouTube?

Mike: I love the idea of doing something like that, and I’ve test run it a couple times; I’ll do a deck spotlight that focuses more on having fun and doing cool stuff than it does on spending money and having flashy cards. I’ve thought about going and trying something with YouTube, but it’s a big undertaking if I’m doing it just by myself. There’s so much time that has to go into these. I try and put out content once every other week, and that’s already pretty hard; research, writing scripts, editing, recording, editing again. It’s a lot. Trying to do a visual medium means not only do I have to do all of that, but also worry about things like catchy thumbnails, and good video capture equipment , so I could actually show off how the decks play in real life. It’s definitely a goal of mine; I talk on the visual aspects of cards a lot, and being able to see them would certainly help, right? But I have to weigh the cost of not just equipment, but the time I would lose making that kind of content. But in the future? For sure.

Jeremy: Speaking of frustrations was there a time where you nearly gave up? A hill you just couldn’t seem to get past?

Mike: Hills? More like mountain ranges. Content saturation, creative droughts, balancing a social life while trying to do this, the list goes on and on. I can remember several points where I would be sitting at my computer, surrounded by cards and scripts and just thinking to myself “Is any of this worth it? Why am I fighting what seems like a never ending, uphill battle?”.

Jeremy: How did you get past that?

Mike: Honestly? I still haven’t gotten past some of them. Everything worth doing is worth doing right, even if it’s hard. The biggest thing that keeps me going are the stories I get from people who have found something they truly enjoy from listening to what I have to say. I actually just recently had a Dad reach out to me who told me that he had used my podcast to learn about the game, so that he could connect better with his kids who play. Now, they play weekly at a local game store together. How cool is that? And that maybe wouldn’t have happened if I didn’t make my silly little podcast that I spent so much time worrying about in the beginning.

Boom

Jeremy: Some of your peers in the Magic the Gathering content creation community, have been fortunate enough to make the jump to a full time creator. You’ve been very candid with your audience that you still work full time, you have a family, and there are other commitments that take priority over the Podcast. Has this effected overall listenership or how you try to market your channel?

Mike: I’m sure it does. I have a pretty fantastic community, and word of mouth has brought a lot of people to my podcast than I have any right to have. I don’t know, I just feel like if I present anything but my best self, my real self, what am I doing, right? I love this game, and believe me, my coworkers and my family are well aware of how much I do. But it’s also important that I’m transparent with my listeners, and sometimes that means saying “Hey guys, next weeks episode is going to be a couple days late. I have my anniversary coming up”. Or like “ Sorry guys, my wife has the flu, so this episodes going to be a little shorter because I’m on nurse duty”. And you know what? I’ve found that people appreciate that kind of stuff. Sometimes, having a life is good for content creation; reminds people that I’m not just some disembodied voice who really likes cool pictures of dragons. 

Jeremy: To pivot the conversation from the business side of things back to game itself, I would love to know out of all of the sets you’ve covered which has been your favorite?

Mike: Oh that’s not fair! I love all my children! Dang, if I had to pick one it would be probably have to be Battle For Zendikar.It was the first set that I ever played a real, proper tournament game of Magic in, so it gets brownie points for nostalgia, but listen to this plot. Zendikar is this wild, inhospitable plane that is covered in sentient elemental beings that embody the forces of nature; but, a threat emerges! From beyond the stars, the monstrous Eldrazi, eldritch beings whose only goal is to consume all life, have set their sights on Zendikar o devour the rich natural resources. It’s up to a group of Planeswalkers, powerful mages and warriors who can travel the Multiverse, and the citizens of this world to fight back against not just extinction of their species, but the annihilation of the Plane itself. How cool is that?

Jeremy: I know we’re almost at time here and I want to be respectful of your schedule but, my last question is how have you been able to manage producing episodes on a bi-weekly schedule while having real life commitments? That must take a toll on you and your family.

Mike: A toll on me? Absolutely. I feel exhausted pretty much daily, but like I said, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing when it’s hard. My family is truly my one saving grace. My wife is an angel, and I’m becoming more and more sure each day that she may actually be one. I know without out a doubt that without her, none of this would be possibly. She is my editor, my brainstorming partner, my most honest critic, my biggest fan, and my best friend.

Jeremy: That is incredibly insightful, again, it was wonderful to speak with you and thank you for taking the time out of your schedule to answer my questions.